A dialogue between curator Alessandra Troncone and artist Oscar Santillán orbiting around the connection between his work and what he calls the “Antimundo”—what grows outside of “Western reality”. The lecture explores the ideas behind works such as ‘A Thousand Years of Nonlinear History’, ‘Planetarium’, ‘Solaris’, and ‘How Rivers Think’ by relating them to indigenous epistemologies, sci-fi, and cybernetics.