Author of ‘The cybernetic brain: sketches of another future’, Andrew Pickering is a philosopher and one of the most prominent historians of cybernetics, at least of its most radical branch. In this interview by artist Oscar Santillán, Pickering discusses the forgotten experiments with ‘biological computing’ done in the 1960’s by Stafford Beer and Gordon Pask, the unexplored potentials of “adaptation” in contrast to “domination”, and also introduces ideas about “dancing with nature” that he is currently developing for his forthcoming book.